Mountaineering boots are a crucial part of any mountain climber’s gear. They provide the necessary support and protection for the feet and ankles while climbing steep terrain and navigating treacherous paths. However, the point of mountaineering boots goes beyond just providing support and protection. In this comprehensive guide, we will explore the various aspects of mountaineering boots and their importance in mountain climbing. We will delve into the features and benefits of these boots, and discuss how they can enhance your climbing experience. So, buckle up and get ready to discover the point of mountaineering boots!
Mountaineering boots are designed for hiking and climbing in rugged terrain. They provide ankle support, protection from sharp rocks and scree, and grip on slippery or icy surfaces. The boots are typically made of sturdy materials such as leather and nylon, and have a stiff sole for better support. They also have features such as crampon compatibility and waterproofing to enhance their performance in various conditions. The point of mountaineering boots is to provide the necessary protection and support for adventurers and mountaineers to explore and navigate challenging terrain.
What are Mountaineering Boots?
Materials Used in Mountaineering Boots
The materials used in mountaineering boots play a crucial role in determining their durability, comfort, and performance. These boots are designed to withstand harsh mountain environments, and the materials used must be able to withstand the elements while providing support and protection to the wearer. Here are some of the materials commonly used in mountaineering boots:
- Leather: Leather is a popular material used in mountaineering boots because of its durability and resistance to water. Full-grain leather is often used because it is the most durable and resistant to wear and tear.
- Nubuck leather: Nubuck leather is another type of leather that is commonly used in mountaineering boots. It is soft and flexible, making it comfortable to wear, but it is also less durable than full-grain leather.
- Synthetic materials: Synthetic materials such as nylon, polyester, and cordura are often used in mountaineering boots because they are lightweight and provide good abrasion resistance. They are also more affordable than leather materials.
- Gore-Tex: Gore-Tex is a waterproof, breathable membrane that is often used in mountaineering boots. It keeps the feet dry and warm in wet conditions while allowing perspiration to escape.
- Carbon fiber: Carbon fiber is a lightweight and strong material that is sometimes used in mountaineering boots. It provides excellent support and protection while also reducing weight.
- Aluminum: Aluminum is a lightweight and durable material that is sometimes used in mountaineering boots for crampon attachments.
In addition to these materials, mountaineering boots may also incorporate features such as Vibram soles, waterproofing treatments, and supportive footbeds to enhance their performance and comfort. The materials used in mountaineering boots must be able to withstand the rigors of the mountains while providing the support and protection necessary for safe and enjoyable climbs.
Anatomy of Mountaineering Boots
The anatomy of mountaineering boots refers to the various components that make up these specialized footwear items. Understanding the different parts of mountaineering boots is crucial for selecting the right pair and ensuring that they provide the necessary support and protection for your feet during your climb. Here are some of the key components to look out for:
1. Soles
The soles of mountaineering boots are designed to provide grip and traction on different types of terrain, including rocks, snow, and ice. They may have a flat or slightly curved shape, depending on the type of climbing you plan to do. Some boots feature rubber soles, while others use a combination of rubber and metal studs for added grip and stability.
2. Upper Material
The upper material of mountaineering boots is typically made from durable, water-resistant fabrics, such as nylon or leather. This material is designed to protect your feet from the elements, while also providing support and flexibility. Some boots may also have reinforced toe and heel areas for added durability.
3. Fit and Flexibility
The fit and flexibility of mountaineering boots are essential for ensuring comfort and ease of movement during your climb. A well-fitting boot should be snug but not too tight, with a little bit of room for your toes to wiggle. The boot should also be flexible enough to allow for natural movement of your foot and ankle.
4. Ankle Support
Ankle support is a critical component of mountaineering boots, as it helps prevent ankle injuries and provides stability on steep or uneven terrain. Some boots may have a rigid ankle cuff, while others may have a more flexible design that allows for greater range of motion.
5. Crampon Compatibility
Many mountaineering boots are designed to be compatible with crampons, which are metal or plastic devices that attach to the boot and provide additional traction on ice and snow. Some boots may have a specific crampon compatibility rating, which indicates the type of crampon that can be used with the boot.
Understanding the anatomy of mountaineering boots is essential for selecting the right pair for your climb. Whether you’re a beginner or an experienced climber, taking the time to research and choose the right boots can make a significant difference in your overall safety and comfort on the mountain.
Why are Mountaineering Boots Important?
Protection Against Harsh Environments
- Cold Weather Protection: One of the primary functions of mountaineering boots is to protect the feet from harsh weather conditions. These boots are designed to keep the feet warm and dry in cold temperatures, which is essential for maintaining optimal physical performance. They often have thick, insulated soles and lining made from materials like Gore-Tex or other waterproof fabrics that can withstand extreme weather conditions.
- Protection Against Sharp Objects: Another key feature of mountaineering boots is their ability to protect the feet from sharp objects, such as rocks, ice, and snow. These boots are made from durable materials that can withstand impact and abrasion, and they often have reinforced toe and heel areas to provide extra protection. This is especially important when climbing steep inclines or navigating difficult terrain, where the risk of foot injury is higher.
- Ankle Support: Mountaineering boots also provide excellent ankle support, which is crucial for maintaining stability and preventing injuries. The boots are designed to fit snugly around the ankle, providing a stable platform for the foot. Additionally, many mountaineering boots have a rigid ankle cuff that helps to stabilize the foot and prevent ankle twists or sprains. This is particularly important when traversing uneven terrain or crossing creeks and rivers, where the risk of ankle injury is higher.
- Flexibility and Mobility: While mountaineering boots provide excellent protection, they are also designed to be flexible and provide excellent mobility. This is essential for navigating steep and rugged terrain, where the ability to move quickly and efficiently is crucial. Many mountaineering boots have a flexible sole that allows for natural foot movement, and they are often designed with a more relaxed fit around the foot and ankle, which allows for greater range of motion.
- Protection Against Falling: Finally, mountaineering boots are designed to provide protection against falling. The boots are made from durable materials that can withstand impact, and they often have a sturdy toe and heel that can absorb the shock of a fall. Additionally, many mountaineering boots have a rigid sole that provides excellent traction on slippery or uneven surfaces, reducing the risk of falling.
Overall, the protection provided by mountaineering boots is essential for maintaining safety and optimizing performance in harsh and challenging environments. These boots are designed to provide a combination of protection, support, and flexibility, making them ideal for navigating rugged terrain and extreme weather conditions.
Providing Ankle Support
Mountaineering boots are crucial for providing ankle support during challenging treks and climbs. Ankle support is essential in preventing ankle injuries and ensuring the stability needed for navigating rough terrain.
Here are some key points to consider when it comes to ankle support in mountaineering boots:
- Sturdy construction: The boots should be constructed with durable materials that can withstand the forces of rough terrain. This includes using sturdy leather or synthetic materials for the upper portion of the boot, as well as incorporating reinforced stitching and strong laces.
- Flexibility: While ankle support is crucial, it’s also important to ensure that the boots provide enough flexibility to allow for natural movement. This can be achieved through a combination of materials and design features, such as using a rigid outer shell with a more flexible lining or incorporating a “torsional flex” that allows the boot to bend in a natural way.
- Proper fit: A good fit is essential for ankle support. The boots should be snug enough to provide support, but not so tight that they cause discomfort or impede circulation. A well-fitting boot will also help prevent ankle rolls and other injuries.
- Crampons compatibility: For technical climbs, the boots should be compatible with crampons. Crampons are metal frames that attach to the boot and provide additional traction on ice and snow. A compatible boot will have a sturdy, flat sole and a heel that can accept the crampon’s spikes.
- Adaptability: The boots should be adaptable to different conditions and terrain. This may include features such as waterproofing, insulation, and adjustable gaiters that help keep out snow and debris.
Overall, the right mountaineering boots can make a significant difference in preventing ankle injuries and ensuring stability and support during challenging climbs and treks. By considering factors such as construction, flexibility, fit, crampon compatibility, and adaptability, you can choose a boot that meets your needs and helps you stay safe and comfortable on the mountain.
Enhancing Precision and Control
- Providing superior grip and traction on various terrains
- Allowing for precise foot placement and movement
- Offering greater control over balance and stability
- Reducing the risk of slips, trips, and falls
- Enabling better navigation and ascension in challenging environments
- Supporting the wearer’s overall safety and confidence during climbs
- Facilitating the performance of technical mountaineering tasks
How to Choose the Right Mountaineering Boots?
Factors to Consider When Choosing Mountaineering Boots
When choosing mountaineering boots, there are several factors to consider to ensure that you select the right pair for your needs. Here are some of the most important factors to keep in mind:
- Activity Level: The activity level you plan to engage in while wearing the boots is a crucial factor to consider. For example, if you plan to go on multi-day treks or tackle difficult terrain, you’ll need boots that are more durable and provide better ankle support.
- Foot Shape and Size: Your foot shape and size play a significant role in choosing the right mountaineering boots. Make sure to get your feet measured and try on different boots to ensure a proper fit. Additionally, consider the shape of your feet, as some boots may be better suited for wider or narrower feet.
- Weight and Packability: The weight and packability of the boots are also important factors to consider. If you plan to cover long distances or need to carry your boots with you, lighter and more packable options may be preferable.
- Material: The material of the boots is another important consideration. Leather boots are typically more durable and provide better protection, but can be heavier and more expensive. Synthetic boots, on the other hand, are often lighter and more affordable but may not provide the same level of protection.
- Flexibility and Ankle Support: The flexibility and ankle support of the boots are also important factors to consider. Boots with a more flexible sole and better ankle support can provide better stability and reduce the risk of injury.
- Price: Finally, the price of the boots is an important consideration. While more expensive boots may offer better quality and performance, they may not be necessary for all activities. Consider your budget and the level of performance you need before making a decision.
Tips for Finding the Perfect Pair of Mountaineering Boots
Choosing the right pair of mountaineering boots is crucial for a successful and comfortable climb. Here are some tips to help you find the perfect pair of boots for your needs:
1. Assess Your Climbing Style and Needs
Before you start looking for mountaineering boots, it’s essential to consider your climbing style and needs. Different boots are designed for different climbing styles, such as traditional climbing, ice climbing, or alpine climbing. Therefore, you need to determine what type of climbing you’ll be doing and choose a boot that suits your needs.
2. Determine Your Boot Size
The fit of your mountaineering boots is crucial for comfort and performance. To determine your boot size, you should first measure your feet using a tape measure or try on different boots to see which size feels best. Keep in mind that your feet may swell during a climb, so it’s best to choose a boot that fits snugly but isn’t too tight.
3. Consider the Boot’s Flexibility
Flexibility is a critical factor to consider when choosing mountaineering boots. Boots that are too stiff can make it difficult to move around, while boots that are too flexible can cause instability and ankle rolls. Therefore, you need to choose a boot that provides the right balance of support and flexibility based on your climbing style and needs.
4. Look for Durable Materials
Mountaineering boots are exposed to harsh conditions, including sharp rocks, ice, and snow. Therefore, it’s essential to choose a boot made from durable materials that can withstand the elements. Look for boots made from high-quality leather or synthetic materials that are abrasion-resistant and waterproof.
5. Consider the Boot’s Weight and Fit
Weight and fit are essential factors to consider when choosing mountaineering boots. Boots that are too heavy can make it difficult to move around, while boots that are too light may not provide enough support. Additionally, boots that are too loose or too tight can cause discomfort and blisters. Therefore, it’s essential to choose a boot that strikes the right balance between weight, fit, and support.
By following these tips, you can find the perfect pair of mountaineering boots for your needs and enjoy a comfortable and successful climb.
How to Maintain and Care for Mountaineering Boots?
Proper Cleaning and Maintenance Techniques
Cleaning and maintaining your mountaineering boots is crucial to ensure their longevity and performance. Here are some proper cleaning and maintenance techniques to follow:
Removing Dirt and Debris
The first step in cleaning your mountaineering boots is to remove any dirt or debris that may have accumulated on the surface. Use a soft-bristled brush or a cloth to gently remove any visible dirt and debris. You can also use a vacuum cleaner with a soft-bristled attachment to remove any loose dirt and debris from the boots.
Cleaning the Boot Leather
After removing the surface dirt and debris, it’s time to clean the boot leather. Use a soft, damp cloth to wipe down the boot leather. Avoid using harsh chemicals or soap, as these can damage the leather. Instead, use a leather cleaner or a mixture of warm water and a small amount of mild soap. Gently work the cleaner into the leather, and then wipe it off with a clean, damp cloth.
Drying the Boots
Once you’ve cleaned the boots, it’s important to dry them properly to prevent damage. Use a clean, dry cloth to wipe away any excess moisture. Avoid using heat sources, such as a hairdryer or a heat gun, as these can damage the boot leather. Instead, let the boots air dry in a cool, dry place.
Conditioning the Leather
Finally, it’s important to condition the leather regularly to keep it soft and supple. Use a leather conditioner or a mixture of olive oil and beeswax. Apply the conditioner to a clean, damp cloth and then work it into the leather. Let the boots dry naturally, and then buff them with a clean, dry cloth.
By following these proper cleaning and maintenance techniques, you can keep your mountaineering boots in good condition and ensure they provide the support and protection you need on your climbs.
Storage and Preservation Tips
When it comes to maintaining and caring for mountaineering boots, proper storage and preservation are crucial to ensure their longevity and maintain their performance. Here are some tips to keep your boots in good condition:
Store Them in a Dry Place
Mountaineering boots should be stored in a dry place, away from direct sunlight and moisture. This is because excessive moisture can cause the materials to degrade and lose their shape, while direct sunlight can cause the colors to fade and the materials to weaken.
Use a Boot Bag
Using a boot bag to store your mountaineering boots is recommended. Boot bags are designed to protect your boots from crushing and damage, and they also help to keep them clean and free from dirt and debris.
Rotate Your Boots
Rotating your boots is an effective way to preserve their shape and longevity. This means wearing each pair of boots for a set period of time before switching to another pair. This will help to distribute the wear and tear evenly and prevent any one area from becoming worn out.
Clean Them Regularly
Cleaning your mountaineering boots regularly is essential to maintain their waterproofing and prevent dirt and debris from getting inside and causing damage. Use a soft brush to remove any dirt or debris, and avoid using harsh chemicals or solvents that could damage the materials.
By following these storage and preservation tips, you can ensure that your mountaineering boots will last for many years and continue to provide you with the support and protection you need on your climbs.
Common Issues with Mountaineering Boots and How to Address Them
Blisters and Other Foot Injuries
While mountaineering boots are designed to provide support and protection for the feet, they can also cause blisters and other foot injuries if not worn properly. Blisters are a common issue that can be caused by friction from the boot’s stiff upper and rough interior. To prevent blisters, it is important to break in the boots gradually, wear appropriate socks, and avoid over-tightening the laces.
Other foot injuries that can occur while wearing mountaineering boots include plantar fasciitis, tendonitis, and ankle sprains. These injuries can be caused by the boot’s stiffness and lack of flexibility, as well as the uneven terrain and rough conditions of mountainous environments. To prevent these injuries, it is important to choose a boot that fits well and provides adequate support, as well as taking regular breaks and stretching to prevent overuse.
Overheating and Ventilation
One of the most common issues with mountaineering boots is overheating. When climbing in hot weather or during high-intensity activities, boots can become too warm, leading to discomfort and potential blisters. Proper ventilation is crucial to prevent this issue. Here are some tips to address overheating and ventilation in mountaineering boots:
- Choose the right boot material: Different materials have varying degrees of breathability. Leather boots, for example, are not as breathable as boots made from synthetic materials like Gore-Tex. Opt for boots with materials that allow for better airflow to keep your feet dry and cool.
- Consider the lining: Some boots have removable liners, which can be a benefit in terms of ventilation. If you find that your boots are retaining too much heat, consider removing the liner to allow for better air circulation.
- Add ventilation: If your boots do not have adequate ventilation, you can add it yourself. There are several products available, such as ventilation patches or breathable mesh liners, that can be attached to the inside of your boots to improve airflow.
- Dry your boots properly: After a climb, make sure to dry your boots thoroughly. Wet boots can retain heat and lead to overheating during your next climb. Use a boot dryer or let them air dry in a well-ventilated area.
- Wear socks: Wearing proper socks can help with ventilation. Opt for moisture-wicking socks that can draw sweat away from your feet, keeping them dry and cool.
- Choose the right size: Wearing a boot that is too tight can lead to overheating. Make sure to choose a boot that fits comfortably but is not too loose, as this can also cause ventilation issues.
By addressing overheating and ventilation issues in your mountaineering boots, you can ensure that your feet stay dry, comfortable, and protected during your climbs.
Durability and Longevity
One of the most significant concerns when it comes to mountaineering boots is their durability and longevity. After all, these boots are designed to withstand the harshest of environments and conditions, including rocky terrain, snow, ice, and extreme temperatures. Therefore, it is crucial to ensure that the boots can stand up to the test of time and provide the necessary support and protection throughout the journey.
Factors Affecting Durability and Longevity
Several factors can impact the durability and longevity of mountaineering boots, including:
- Material Quality: The quality of the materials used in constructing the boots plays a significant role in determining their durability. High-quality materials such as leather, nylon, and other synthetic fabrics can withstand the wear and tear of constant use and exposure to the elements.
- Construction: The construction of the boots is also a critical factor in determining their longevity. A well-constructed boot will have a solid foundation, sturdy lacing system, and reinforced toe and heel for added protection.
- Maintenance: Proper maintenance and care can significantly extend the life of mountaineering boots. This includes cleaning and conditioning the leather, regularly oiling moving parts, and avoiding exposure to extreme temperatures.
Signs of Wear and Tear
Recognizing the signs of wear and tear is essential in determining when it’s time to replace your mountaineering boots. Some common signs include:
- Worn-out Soles: The soles of the boots are the first to wear out due to constant friction and pressure. Worn-out soles can cause slips and falls, making it essential to replace them as soon as possible.
- Loose Stitching: If the stitching on the boots appears loose or frayed, it’s a sign that the boots are wearing out. Loose stitching can cause the boot to come apart during use, leading to a potentially dangerous situation.
- Cracks or Damage to the Material: Any cracks or damage to the material of the boots can indicate that they are no longer suitable for use. This type of damage can weaken the boots and compromise their ability to provide the necessary support and protection.
Repair or Replacement?
When it comes to addressing the issue of durability and longevity in mountaineering boots, the question becomes whether to repair or replace them. In general, if the damage is minor, such as worn-out soles or loose stitching, repairing the boots may be a viable option. However, if the damage is significant, such as cracks or damage to the material, replacement may be the better option.
Ultimately, the decision to repair or replace mountaineering boots will depend on several factors, including the extent of the damage, the age of the boots, and the level of use. By taking the time to assess the condition of the boots and address any issues promptly, mountaineers can ensure that they have the necessary support and protection for their journey.
The Future of Mountaineering Boots
Emerging Technologies and Materials
The future of mountaineering boots is shaped by the integration of emerging technologies and materials. These advancements aim to enhance performance, comfort, and durability while reducing environmental impact.
Advanced Materials
- Carbon Fiber: Carbon fiber is a lightweight, strong, and durable material that finds its way into high-performance mountaineering boots. Its high strength-to-weight ratio enables boots to be lighter, allowing for better mobility and reduced fatigue.
- Dyneema: Dyneema is an ultra-lightweight, high-strength fiber made from polyethylene. Its use in boots results in exceptional strength and abrasion resistance, making them suitable for rugged terrain.
- Aerospace Alloys: Aerospace alloys, such as 7075-T6 aluminum, are being utilized in boot design. These alloys are lightweight, strong, and corrosion-resistant, making them ideal for high-altitude mountaineering expeditions.
New Technologies
- 3D Printing: 3D printing technology allows for the creation of custom-fit boots tailored to the individual’s foot shape and preferences. This personalization enhances comfort and support, leading to improved performance.
- Heat-Moldable Materials: Boots with heat-moldable materials can be molded to the shape of the wearer’s foot, providing a precise fit and improved performance. This technology is particularly beneficial for those with wider or narrower feet.
- Energy Return Systems: Incorporating energy return systems, inspired by running shoes, into mountaineering boots can help reduce fatigue and improve energy efficiency during long ascents. These systems use specialized materials that store and release energy, aiding in the upward motion.
These emerging technologies and materials are revolutionizing the world of mountaineering boots, providing climbers with improved performance, comfort, and durability. As these advancements continue to evolve, the future of mountaineering boots is poised to become even more exciting.
Potential Innovations in Mountaineering Boots
The future of mountaineering boots is exciting, with several potential innovations that could change the game for climbers. Some of these innovations include:
Lightweight Materials
One of the most significant challenges for mountaineering boot designers is creating boots that are both supportive and lightweight. In the future, we can expect to see more boots made from lightweight materials such as carbon fiber and Kevlar. These materials are not only strong but also very light, making them ideal for climbing.
Advanced Traction
Another potential innovation in mountaineering boots is advanced traction. Boots with improved traction could be a game-changer for climbers, especially those who frequently climb on slippery or uneven surfaces. Designers are exploring new materials and technologies to improve traction, such as specialized outsoles and rubber compounds.
Customizable Fit
Climbers come in all shapes and sizes, and finding a boot that fits perfectly can be a challenge. In the future, we can expect to see more boots that are customizable to fit each climber’s unique foot shape and size. This could be achieved through 3D printing or other advanced manufacturing techniques.
Enhanced Comfort
Finally, many climbers suffer from foot pain and discomfort after a long day of climbing. In the future, we can expect to see more boots that prioritize comfort, with features such as better cushioning, better support, and better ventilation. These features could help climbers enjoy their time on the mountain without suffering from foot pain.
The Role of Sustainability in Future Mountaineering Boots
- Sustainability as a Key Consideration
- The environmental impact of mountaineering boots
- Materials used in the production process
- Leather vs synthetic materials
- The importance of durability and longevity
- Waste and pollution generated during manufacturing
- Energy consumption and carbon footprint
- Materials used in the production process
- The ethical implications of mountaineering boots
- Labor conditions in manufacturing
- Fair wages and working hours
- Health and safety standards
- Responsible sourcing of materials
- Ethical and sustainable sourcing practices
- Certifications and standards to look for
- Labor conditions in manufacturing
- The environmental impact of mountaineering boots
- Innovations in Sustainable Mountaineering Boots
- Eco-friendly materials and technologies
- Biodegradable and compostable materials
- Recycled and upcycled materials
- Sustainable waterproofing technologies
- Design and manufacturing processes
- 3D printing and digital manufacturing
- Modular and adaptable designs
- Circular economy principles
- Partnerships and collaborations
- Industry leaders and organizations working together
- Consumer engagement and awareness campaigns
- Advocating for policy changes and industry standards
- Eco-friendly materials and technologies
- Challenges and Opportunities in Sustainable Mountaineering Boots
- Balancing performance and sustainability
- The challenge of meeting environmental and ethical standards while maintaining performance
- The role of innovation and technology in achieving this balance
- Overcoming consumer perceptions and behaviors
- Addressing the misconception that sustainable products are less durable or less effective
- Encouraging consumers to prioritize sustainability in their purchasing decisions
- Ensuring accessibility and affordability
- The need for sustainable options at various price points
- Strategies for reducing costs and increasing availability
- Collaborative efforts and industry-wide initiatives
- Industry-wide standards and certifications
- Public-private partnerships for research and development
- Supporting small and medium-sized enterprises in the production process
- Balancing performance and sustainability
FAQs
1. What is the purpose of mountaineering boots?
Mountaineering boots are designed for hiking and climbing in mountainous terrain. They provide support, ankle stability, and protection for the feet and lower legs. The boots are typically made of sturdy materials such as leather and have a rigid sole for stability on steep and uneven terrain.
2. What makes mountaineering boots different from regular hiking boots?
Mountaineering boots are designed for more technical and challenging terrain, such as steep slopes, ice, and snow. They have a more rigid sole and a stiffer upper to provide more support and stability. They also often have crampon compatibility, which allows the boots to be used with crampons for ice climbing.
3. Are mountaineering boots comfortable to wear?
Mountaineering boots are designed to be supportive and stable, rather than comfortable. They are not intended to be worn for long periods of time, and are typically only worn for short periods of time during a climb or hike. That being said, some modern mountaineering boots have improved comfort features such as padded collars and tongues, but they still may not be as comfortable as regular hiking boots.
4. Do I need specialized mountaineering boots for climbing?
It depends on the type of climbing you plan to do. If you are only doing beginner hikes and climbs, regular hiking boots may be sufficient. However, if you plan to do more technical climbs, such as ice climbing or alpine climbing, you will need boots that are compatible with crampons and have a more rigid sole.
5. How do I choose the right mountaineering boots for me?
Choosing the right mountaineering boots depends on your personal preferences and the type of climbing you plan to do. Some factors to consider when choosing boots include the fit, the sole stiffness, the crampon compatibility, and the weight. It’s also important to make sure the boots fit well and are comfortable for you. It’s always a good idea to try on boots before purchasing them and to consult with a knowledgeable salesperson if possible.